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Helen's avatar

OK, BUT I don't know that we need to enter into the 'sacrificial' martyr-victim or hero-martyr identity as parents either, because one is hardly making good choices or decisions from that frame. Plus, that buys into the well-established Western mentality that children and parents are inherently antagonostic in terms of their needs and desires...which is the mentality underpinning much of what Adam seems to highlight in his book. I think the point is that children CAN and SHOULD BE your personal fulfilment if you're going to choose them...having stewardship of a young life, and deep emotional bonds and connection are the potential desirable outcomes of parenting, and are probably the most fulfilling things you can have as a human being. If that's not the outcome you're looking for, and the fulfilment you seek in life, then don't do it. But if it is, then parenting isn't antithetical to your fulfilment, it is the highest expression of it.

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Adam B. Coleman's avatar

The point is that your choices have consequences for not just you but your children to. Constantly chasing what only benefits the adult ultimately hurts the child. This includes poor family planning in the first place. Not having your children in mind even prior to them being born could lead to a mountain a problems for the child.

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Helen's avatar

I'm with you all the way Adam (also, congrats on the book!)! I absolutely agree that probably the principle problem is people really don't think deeply enough about what having a child is or entails, or in some instances they don't think at all. I have enough friends who had babies 'because all their friends were having babies' or 'because they didn't want their biological clock to run out'...I couldn't believe they put less thought into creating another human than I would personally put into whether to get a *dog* or not, but there it is.

They really ought to take that first, principle choice more seriously, also because that's a bench-mark as to whether they're actually capable of taking ANY choice or decision seriously...a necessary skill for raising children

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Nathalie Martinek PhD's avatar

I do agree with you about the interdependence of parent and child, and the ability to seek fulfilment in parenting. My sense is that Adam is speaking to everyone who doesn't think like this and don't consider consequences on their children downstream of their decisions.

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EKB's avatar

People forget, because in the west it's all about personal fulfillment, that once you decide to bring this new vulnerable little life into the world it is no longer about you. Your obligations and priorities need to shift and change. And it might be a lifelong shift so if you are not ready for that use birth control.

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Nathalie Martinek PhD's avatar

It's so hard to consider long term consequences when so many new parents have underdeveloped executive function and disconnection from cultural/religious values that hammer home the importance of self-discipline, restraint, and delayed gratification.

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Diana Brewster's avatar

Today’s generations of Western parents grew up in a culture that valorized life long babyhood. Few people know what it means to be an adult. Instead, they pretend-play at “adulting.”

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Ambha Roberts's avatar

Argh! All my stuff! And so many other people’s stuff as well.

As you lay out the premise, this just ticks so many boxes for me.

Sounds like a worthy read.

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Nathalie Martinek PhD's avatar

Yes to all the things rolled up in a book!

It will get you thinking about your own family story and shift your perspective to analyse it a little differently. Could be helpful for constellation work too! :)

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Soul Alchemy's avatar

What a powerful title for the book ! Can't wait to read. Parental neglect, particularly stemming from narcissism, can cause existential earthquakes in young children, destabilizing their sense of self and altering their perception of the world. A colossal damage. In such circumstances, it becomes crucial for the healthier parent to be a strong & steady emotional anchor and nurturer for her children. She needs to be the safe home to counter the effects of abandonment caused by the narcissistic parent. A child can heal and thrive with her strength. However, this often means the mother needs to put her own dreams and needs on hold to protect her children. Sadly in a society where many authorities lack understanding of the depth of damage caused by narcissism, the mother is often left without the support she needs. If the dynamics of narcissistic abuse could be better understood in the family courts, we would have a much healthier society and future generation.

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Shulamis's avatar

Interesting. I was raised by a single mom, along with four of my siblings. She was a financially un-successful, yet extremely dedicated, internal medicine doctor, with her own practice in a small town in upstate New York. My father was a rabbi from a very poor, Hasidic, Jewish family, and he had very little to do with my upbringing until much later in my life (when I seeked out a relationship).

My mother kept me alive and my father helped me thrive, yet they were both still “narcissistic” in their own ways, which created much suffering and hardships to this day.

I put narcissistic in quotes because I don’t really use it as a slur or accusation, I just think that things get too hard for people and they stop growing at certain age. And my parents really tried as much as they could given all inputs. They are good citizens and responsible adults.

All that to say, I think it’s interesting that I basically agree with almost every single post that Rob Henderson ever puts up and he was also a child of a single mom. But if I were to share some of his stuff with some of my friends who had different upbringings, they might disagree. This article is one of those posts that I can’t share with certain people because they will disagree with it.

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Kenneth E. Harrell's avatar

I have to get this book

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Alison Bull's avatar

I can’t wait to read it! Pre-ordering now.

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Sandra Combs's avatar

Ordering today!

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Kat Mullaly's avatar

Very interesting theory... 🤔 And I say that as a "survivor" of some VERY "The Ice Storm" parenting in the '70s. (Meaning some nowadays-shocking narcissistic lack thereof.) Great read.

#sufferthechildren 😞

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Aaron De Los Reyes's avatar

Im sorry but outside an interesting sociological study there is zero policy intervention except running around shaming people for "not living correctly" etc.. that anyone can do..the west and western based economies and societies have a $60+ trillion economy 2/3rds of world GDP and 13% of the population.. trading that for magical perfection of family unit in some type of 19th century fantasy of family union with 99% less GDP is absurd..

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Adam B. Coleman's avatar

Telling parents that they should be better parents and think about their kids first isnt controversial. This isnt unrealistic either. Also, policy can't make parents be good ones. It's a choice every one must make. Im not speaking from a position of being perfect...throughout the book I talk about my faults and lessons learned.

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Shulamis's avatar

Interesting. I was raised by a single mom, along with four of my siblings. She was a financially un-successful, yet extremely dedicated, internal medicine doctor, with her own practice in a small town in upstate New York. My father was a rabbi from a very poor, Hasidic, Jewish family, and he had very little to do with my upbringing until much later in my life (when I seeked out a relationship).

My mother kept me alive and my father helped me thrive, yet they were both still “narcissistic” in their own ways, which created much suffering and hardships to this day.

I put narcissistic in quotes because I don’t really use it as a slur or accusation, I just think that things get too hard for people and they stop growing at certain age. And my parents really tried as much as they could given all inputs. They are good citizens and responsible adults.

All that to say, I think it’s interesting that I basically agree with almost every single post that Rob Henderson ever puts up and he was also a child of a single mom. But if I were to share some of his stuff with some of my friends who had different upbringings, they might disagree. This article is one of those posts that I can’t share with certain people because they will disagree with it.

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Shulamis's avatar

Interesting. I was raised by a single mom, along with four of my siblings. She was a financially un-successful, yet extremely dedicated, internal medicine doctor, with her own practice in a small town in upstate New York. My father was a rabbi from a very poor, Hasidic, Jewish family, and he had very little to do with my upbringing until much later in my life (when I seeked out a relationship).

My mother kept me alive and my father helped me thrive, yet they were both still “narcissistic” in their own ways, which created much suffering and hardships to this day.

I put narcissistic in quotes because I don’t really use it as a slur or accusation, I just think that things get too hard for people and they stop growing at certain age. And my parents really tried as much as they could given all inputs. They are good citizens and responsible adults.

All that to say, I think it’s interesting that I basically agree with almost every single post that Rob Henderson ever puts up and he was also a child of a single mom. But if I were to share some of his stuff with some of my friends who had different upbringings, they might disagree. This article is one of those posts that I can’t share with certain people because they will disagree with it.

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ClaeR's avatar

Hmm

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Cassandra anonymous's avatar

@katyfaust

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