That's an entirely different article which would basically state - 'don't bother, disengage, and walk away.'
Josh Slocum just published an excellent conversation with Psychiatrist Dr. Mark McDonald that covered a lot of territory on BPD and feedback. So illuminating and well worth listening to in its entirety for a conversation you won't hear elsewhere.
Thanks Natalie, my husband and I are dealing with a disaster BPD situation… and on the other hand a savage narcissistic personality! Talk about a double dilemma
Oy vey Rachael - double trouble x 1000. I think you'll get a lot out of the podcast that you could apply to your current dilemma. Sending you all the positive vibes to help you get through it!
Very insightful! I see exactly what all this is saying and I'm worried a couple of items might be things I do thinking that I'm helping... Is there a list of healthy ways to handle conflict?
I honestly hadn’t considered the idea that feedback is inconsequential and even potentially counterproductive. It explains a lot about behavior among my female friends for example. When I have given feedback, I’ve created strife. When I’ve attempted holding someone accountable for pain, it’s been exactly the cycle you said (notably with my wealthy former mother in law).
In response to your question though, I’m actually not sure what to do anymore with someone averse to taking responsibility. Personal responsibility for behavior in general is rejected by modern feminist “thought”, so we go through life just doing shit and not expecting consequences. I suppose I have a threshold. If you consistently can’t accept your own role in your outcomes and behavior toward others, I have nothing to learn from you.
Interesting reflection! I think the whole idea of feedback is so loaded because of our individual experiences of authorities using criticism for control instead of observations that encourage and motivate growth. It can be difficult to enough to receive feedback when you trust the person giving it let alone someone we don't know that well.
Your personal philosophy about emotionally detaching from those who can't do accountability will save your energy. I think in this day of some women having gone too far into hyperempowerment, giving feedback isn't going to do much unless your social status is through the roof. I think the next level of 'holding someone accountable' is to revoke access to things that matter to them...even if it's me. Harsh but I'm not sure what else to do.
Thank you, Nathalie! This goes along perfectly with my strategies I’ve adopted since studying NPD. Your statement above to Rachel makes sense. The info here is the knowledge survivors need to recognize this sick framework and accept/surrender to what is that can’t be fixed. We can only navigate the behavior problems and we must do it in a healthy stance. It’s not about being “right” with these people. It’s about staying sane!
This article was so insightful, as well as practical. I enjoyed reading it. Narcissism is a hot topic; you give real solutions to dealing with these difficult people. Don't let them take your power away and limit energy into confrontational conversations. It's just not worth it. I would love to read more!
Great post Nathalie! One example: Our USA President screaming for accountability while he has never once demonstrated it: “A political leader is confronted about past harmful policies. Instead of acknowledging his role, he shifts blame to previous administrations, claims his words were taken out of context, or gaslights the public by stating the issue isn’t as bad as it seems.”
Yes, but this isn’t just ‘politicians being politicians.’ There’s one political leader currently in power who’s made accountability avoidance into an art form—and it’s the very same one constantly demanding it from others.
This is something I need to work on. Sometimes, I want to give feedback, point out the inconsistencies of someone’s arguments, or offer corrections because, you know, “I'm just trying to help.” This is what I tell myself. I believe that my ability to engage in critical reasoning is one of my strengths. But, it can also be leveraged as a weapon or a means to gain the upper hand. I don't always do it consciously, but I have occasionally overidentified with my ego. As a ‘perfectionist’ type, I can have unrealistically high expectations. This hasn't always served me so well in interpersonal relationships.
As someone who has struggled to find a voice, I find assertive communication challenging to master. While I accept that it’s okay for me to have opinions, I feel I need more discernment around when it’s appropriate to voice my concerns. It might be helpful for me to consider: is this useful, helpful or a productive use of my time? Too often I miss the opportunity to temper the desire or I ‘feel the pull’ to offer my opinion is something that isn't entirely critical. This is something I feel I need to monitor.
So, I'm glad I found this article. Sometimes, it’s better to listen and observe. Some people handle robust intellectual exchanges better than others. Many times, I feel I'm seeking clarification or understanding. But maybe that's my rationalization. I generally don't want to hurt other people. But again, if I'm attacking someone’s ideas, I suppose I'm attacking them personally. I don't know how I feel about it. If the relationship is more important than winning points of an argument, it is probably best to keep my opinions and suggestions to myself.
What about the borderline person disorders? They can’t take an ounce of criticism without turning you into their worst enemy.
That's an entirely different article which would basically state - 'don't bother, disengage, and walk away.'
Josh Slocum just published an excellent conversation with Psychiatrist Dr. Mark McDonald that covered a lot of territory on BPD and feedback. So illuminating and well worth listening to in its entirety for a conversation you won't hear elsewhere.
https://disaffectedpod.substack.com/p/a-shrink-and-a-podcaster
Thanks Natalie, my husband and I are dealing with a disaster BPD situation… and on the other hand a savage narcissistic personality! Talk about a double dilemma
Oy vey Rachael - double trouble x 1000. I think you'll get a lot out of the podcast that you could apply to your current dilemma. Sending you all the positive vibes to help you get through it!
Very insightful! I see exactly what all this is saying and I'm worried a couple of items might be things I do thinking that I'm helping... Is there a list of healthy ways to handle conflict?
I honestly hadn’t considered the idea that feedback is inconsequential and even potentially counterproductive. It explains a lot about behavior among my female friends for example. When I have given feedback, I’ve created strife. When I’ve attempted holding someone accountable for pain, it’s been exactly the cycle you said (notably with my wealthy former mother in law).
In response to your question though, I’m actually not sure what to do anymore with someone averse to taking responsibility. Personal responsibility for behavior in general is rejected by modern feminist “thought”, so we go through life just doing shit and not expecting consequences. I suppose I have a threshold. If you consistently can’t accept your own role in your outcomes and behavior toward others, I have nothing to learn from you.
Interesting reflection! I think the whole idea of feedback is so loaded because of our individual experiences of authorities using criticism for control instead of observations that encourage and motivate growth. It can be difficult to enough to receive feedback when you trust the person giving it let alone someone we don't know that well.
Your personal philosophy about emotionally detaching from those who can't do accountability will save your energy. I think in this day of some women having gone too far into hyperempowerment, giving feedback isn't going to do much unless your social status is through the roof. I think the next level of 'holding someone accountable' is to revoke access to things that matter to them...even if it's me. Harsh but I'm not sure what else to do.
I am always looking for ways to remedy whatever blockage exists between me and people but I’m coming to see that I need to pick my battles better.
Thank you, Nathalie! This goes along perfectly with my strategies I’ve adopted since studying NPD. Your statement above to Rachel makes sense. The info here is the knowledge survivors need to recognize this sick framework and accept/surrender to what is that can’t be fixed. We can only navigate the behavior problems and we must do it in a healthy stance. It’s not about being “right” with these people. It’s about staying sane!
It's about staying sane - EXACTLY Suzanne! Thank you for reading!
This article was so insightful, as well as practical. I enjoyed reading it. Narcissism is a hot topic; you give real solutions to dealing with these difficult people. Don't let them take your power away and limit energy into confrontational conversations. It's just not worth it. I would love to read more!
Great post Nathalie! One example: Our USA President screaming for accountability while he has never once demonstrated it: “A political leader is confronted about past harmful policies. Instead of acknowledging his role, he shifts blame to previous administrations, claims his words were taken out of context, or gaslights the public by stating the issue isn’t as bad as it seems.”
Politiicians are great at accountability aversion - it's their most endearing quality!
Yes, but this isn’t just ‘politicians being politicians.’ There’s one political leader currently in power who’s made accountability avoidance into an art form—and it’s the very same one constantly demanding it from others.
This is something I need to work on. Sometimes, I want to give feedback, point out the inconsistencies of someone’s arguments, or offer corrections because, you know, “I'm just trying to help.” This is what I tell myself. I believe that my ability to engage in critical reasoning is one of my strengths. But, it can also be leveraged as a weapon or a means to gain the upper hand. I don't always do it consciously, but I have occasionally overidentified with my ego. As a ‘perfectionist’ type, I can have unrealistically high expectations. This hasn't always served me so well in interpersonal relationships.
As someone who has struggled to find a voice, I find assertive communication challenging to master. While I accept that it’s okay for me to have opinions, I feel I need more discernment around when it’s appropriate to voice my concerns. It might be helpful for me to consider: is this useful, helpful or a productive use of my time? Too often I miss the opportunity to temper the desire or I ‘feel the pull’ to offer my opinion is something that isn't entirely critical. This is something I feel I need to monitor.
So, I'm glad I found this article. Sometimes, it’s better to listen and observe. Some people handle robust intellectual exchanges better than others. Many times, I feel I'm seeking clarification or understanding. But maybe that's my rationalization. I generally don't want to hurt other people. But again, if I'm attacking someone’s ideas, I suppose I'm attacking them personally. I don't know how I feel about it. If the relationship is more important than winning points of an argument, it is probably best to keep my opinions and suggestions to myself.